Having devoted more than 60 years to defence, science, and education, he has participated in numerous weapons procurement and research projects and has a deep understanding of Singapore’s defence strategy and capabilities. In this edition of ZB Personality, Lui Pao Chuen discusses his strategic views on energy security, decision-making philosophy, and the underground caverns project.
“You see, although I’m an outsider to the government, in many ways I’m also like an insider, because I interact with many agencies,” Lui said with a smile during the interview.
That statement is completely true.
Over the years, he has held key positions in at least 75 organisations, including serving as an adviser to various government ministries, chairman of the Public Utilities Board’s project evaluation panel, board member of the Economic Development Board, and chairman of Temasek Laboratories, among others.
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Under Professor Lui Pao Chuen’s chairmanship, the Singapore Nuclear Research and Safety Institute inaugurated its new building at the National University of Singapore this July, marking the culmination of his 19-year effort in advancing nuclear safety research. (Photo courtesy of interviewee)
National Security Is His Only Passion
Beyond arms procurement, he also led the construction committees for Tengah and Paya Lebar Air Bases, Changi Naval Base, and underground ammunition depots; participated in the civil defence shelter programme; and co-chaired a committee that recommended every new residential building be equipped with air-raid shelters.
“National security is my only passion.”
His interests are broad—from outer space to underground spaces. “The ultimate goal is whether what I do makes Singapore safer. If not, I don’t waste my time.”
To him, time is most precious, so he only focuses on truly important things, not on pleasing superiors.
“I’m fortunate that I’ve never had to do things just to please my superiors.”
One of his former bosses, former Permanent Secretary for Defence Ho Hak En, once joked: “Professor Lui—I don’t even know what he’s doing! He just gives me a cheque and asks me to sign it.”
Lui admitted that he liked that kind of relationship because it meant complete trust. That trust allowed him to operate freely in the Ministry of Defence, especially in handling special projects. He also admired a “hands-off” leadership style that passed trust down the line.
He believes that when subordinates are trusted, they will give their all; if they know their boss will support them when they make honest mistakes, they’ll be more willing to take risks.
Singapore’s First Chief Defence Scientist
On September 6, 2008, Lui Pao Chuen travelled to Vandenberg Air Force Base in California to witness the GeoEye-1 satellite being launched by a Delta 2 rocket. (Photo courtesy of interviewee)
In 1986, he became Singapore’s first Chief Defence Scientist, the highest non-military position in the Ministry of Defence.
He recalled that when he was appointed, the scope of his authority was discussed at a Ministry of Defence meeting chaired by then Second Minister for Defence Lee Hsien Loong.
Lee Hsien Loong said: “Pao Chuen, very good—you may carry out the things you’ve written in your brief, but don’t give us more than two ideas a year.”
Lui was puzzled: “Minister, by January 2, I already have two ideas!”
Lee replied: “You didn’t get it. Your ideas are too disruptive! For a big organisation like MINDEF, we can only handle at most two such ideas a year.”
The reporter couldn’t help laughing.
“So after proposing two ideas, I had to keep quiet. The underground ammunition depot was one of them.”
Born in Shanghai in 1942, Lui and his family fled wartime turmoil to Guangzhou and Hong Kong before settling in Singapore in 1950.
In 1965, he graduated from the Faculty of Science, University of Singapore (now NUS), and began teaching physics at the Convent of the Holy Infant Jesus.
Naturally inclined to challenge norms, he twice petitioned the Public Service Commission to amend his teaching scholarship contract—first to transfer to the UK Science Council, and later to the Ministry of Interior and Defence (which split into the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Home Affairs in 1970).
The first time, he reasoned that there were already enough physics teachers, but very few researchers studying how ionospheric changes affected high-frequency radio propagation using data from the UK-2 satellite; thus, being a researcher would contribute more to Singapore.
The second time, he argued that since the Ministry of Interior and Defence needed him, serving the nation was more meaningful than working for the British.
In 1966, he joined the Singapore Armed Forces as “Captain Lui,” serving as Head of Test and Evaluation. He served 20 years in the military, then continued as Chief Defence Scientist in the non-uniformed SAF for 22 years.
In 1985, Lui Pao Chuen test-rode a modified V-200 armoured vehicle designed to launch RBS-70 surface-to-air missiles. (Photo courtesy of interviewee)
Thus, he transitioned from teaching to research, then to defence technology—becoming a key driving force behind national development and completing countless critical projects throughout his life.
Lui has two children, four grandchildren, and two great-grandchildren.
In 2001, he gave his first interview to Lianhe Zaobao. For 24 years since, whenever they met, he was always seen wearing his navy-blue DSO National Laboratories jacket—a symbol of his lifelong loyalty to the nation through defence science and systems engineering.
Known as a “master of systems engineering,” he’s also an exceptional storyteller. Since becoming a visiting professor of “Large-Scale Systems Engineering” at NUS in 1990, he has used storytelling as a teaching method, leaving students with memorable lessons. In 2002, he became the first recipient of NUS Engineering Faculty’s “Outstanding Teaching Award.”
This interview lasted more than three hours, during which Lui shared several fascinating stories. A few of the more significant ones are presented here.
Preparing Early: Building Nuclear Capabilities to Fortify “Energy Defence”
In light of the government’s emphasis on nuclear energy development in the 2025 Budget, Lui Pao Chuen, as chairman of the Singapore Nuclear Research and Safety Institute, said the nation must prepare for possible energy supply disruptions—this is the core idea of “energy defence.”
Having championed nuclear safety for 19 years, Lui cited Prime Minister Lawrence Wong’s Budget statement in February: the government will study the feasibility of deploying nuclear energy in Singapore and systematically build up the necessary capabilities… Singapore needs the expertise to assess various options while ensuring safe and cost-effective solutions.
He said, as PM Wong emphasised, Singapore takes nuclear development seriously. “We cannot afford to be unprepared for disruptions to our energy system; we must always stay ready.”
He explained that the logic is similar to safeguarding water security—preventive preparation is essential to avoid energy cut-offs.
When asked by Lianhe Zaobao whether potential nuclear plant sites include military training zones, nature reserves, or offshore islands such as Jurong Island, he only said, “The areas you mentioned are indeed potential sites.”
He stressed that nuclear plants “will not be built near residential areas.” He clarified that people worry about property depreciation near such facilities, which would upset many homeowners. To prevent such dissatisfaction, he concluded that nuclear plants should be located “in non-residential areas.”
Because Singapore lacks renewable energy resources, achieving carbon-reduction goals will depend on nuclear power. Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) occupy very little land.
Safety remains paramount. “Building nuclear facilities underground increases safety,” he said, “but entails higher costs, longer construction time, and operational constraints.”
He noted that energy security concerns national survival and emphasised the need for “a reliable energy source.”
Energy security has never received the same attention as water security. The Ukraine war served as a wake-up call, prompting countries to reassess the resilience of their energy systems.
Jurong Rock Caverns—the first commercial underground oil storage facility in Southeast Asia—extends 150 metres beneath Jurong Island.
Lui suggested that nuclear facilities could draw on the deep engineering experience of Jurong Rock Caverns, using dry rock layers to prevent groundwater seepage.
He said Indonesia plans to complete two nuclear plants by 2032, while Vietnam and the Philippines have announced similar ambitions. Western SMR technology, however, “is still under development and will not be operational before 2030.”
He also discussed talent challenges. The Singapore Nuclear Research and Safety Institute aims to grow its research staff from 55 to 100 within five years. Yet, even with scholarships, recruiting qualified researchers with the right mindset remains difficult.
Singapore’s Decision-Making Philosophy: Value-Focused, Not Stingy
Singapore’s decision-making philosophy, Lui said, is not about being “stingy” but about “valuing worth.”
Witty and straightforward, Lui used examples from defence procurement to express his views on government efficiency—revealing deep affection and a sense of responsibility toward the nation.
He recalled that during Singapore’s early years, despite limited resources, the government never compromised on critical systems. It always sought “the best, though not necessarily the most expensive,” and secured the best value deals.
For instance, Singapore once bought used trucks “because they were still valuable”; in 1966, it purchased AR-15 rifles even before the United States did; and in 1969, it acquired the world’s most expensive Oerlikon 35 mm anti-aircraft guns from Switzerland.
“From the start, that’s how it was—when you’re small, your weapons must be reliable. You can’t find out they fail only after entering battle. The AR-15 was chosen because it was the lightest.”
He explained that the 5.56 mm calibre is smaller than the standard 7.62 mm, allowing soldiers to carry more ammunition and boost firepower.
As Singapore celebrates its 60th anniversary this year, Lui divides national development into three 20-year phases:
- The Lee Kuan Yew era focused on infrastructure and social needs;
- The Goh Chok Tong era shifted to high-value employment and economic stability;
- The Lee Hsien Loong era moved toward a free-market economy.
He noted that the government once possessed strong engineering capabilities—especially within the Public Works Department, Housing and Development Board, and Jurong Town Corporation. However, as government agencies corporatised and outsourced engineering services, internal expertise weakened, leaving the nation to “suffer from a lack of deep infrastructure knowledge.”
“The problem is, when something happens, you no longer have your own people around,” he said.
For 40 years, Lui pushed to reform talent development, drawing inspiration from Israel’s “academic reserve” system—allowing engineering talents to complete their studies before serving, and later work six years in their fields.
He believes that as the economy grows and national interests expand, government agencies have become “more conservative” and risk-averse. Consensus mechanisms lead to more meetings and slower decisions, while key decision-makers are often too busy to attend.
He observed that government accountability has shifted from “individual responsibility” to “organisational responsibility,” with committees frequently turning to external consultants—their first suggestion often being: “Appoint a consultant!”
“Individuals also dare not go beyond written instructions. Why? The standard answer is: the auditors will question it.”
Proposing “Triple Integration” to Address Transition Gaps
In defence projects, Lui emphasises collaboration and communication, focusing on user satisfaction rather than rigid Key Performance Indicators (KPIs). “My performance target,” he said, “is to make the users happy.”
He proposed a “triple integration” concept—internal team, cross-organisational, and temporal integration—suggesting overlapping tenures to bridge transition gaps between government teams, recommending “at least one year” of overlap.
He praised the National Day Parade team and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for good practices—“While this year’s parade team is still organising, next year’s team already joins as trainees.” As for MFA, “their reports are very thorough, all contact records are complete, and their knowledge-management system is excellent.”
Exploring a Large Underground Aggregate Storage Facility at Mandai—Expected to Free Up 150 Hectares of Land
Following the Mandai underground ammunition depot, Singapore plans another large-scale underground cavern at Mandai for storing construction aggregates, potentially freeing up about 150 hectares of land—whose land and economic value would far exceed construction costs.
In response to Lianhe Zaobao’s query, Lui said the project is currently in the planning stage and will seek development approval.
The Urban Redevelopment Authority’s draft Master Plan 2025 (June) mentioned exploring a deep underground storage facility for construction materials at Gali Batu.
Completed in 2008 after 10 years of construction, the Mandai underground ammunition depot freed about 300 hectares of land—equivalent to 400 football fields. Lui was a key leader of the project.
He noted that moving aggregate storage underground is well justified—it frees up highly valuable land for development.
Although the construction cost of caverns is high, the released land value far outweighs it. “The cost of building caverns,” he said, “is actually paid off many times over by the value of the freed land.”
Singapore already has over 40 years of underground construction experience, including the MRT, underground malls, ammunition depots, and the Jurong Rock Caverns oil storage facility—making costs and benefits well understood.
He stressed that strategic projects must be based on needs analysis and cost-benefit evaluation to ensure benefits exceed costs.
For example, the Mandai ammunition depot replaced the Seletar East depot, freeing land for the Seletar Aerospace Park; Jurong Rock Caverns also created high value.
Lui explained that strategic projects must be large enough to justify the cost of access tunnels and shafts. The access tunnels must be built before excavation of the main caverns, and timelines must account for these prerequisites.
Because underground facilities are shielded from sunlight, they require less power for cooling than surface facilities, but fire-safety systems are expensive. Fire prevention, smoke control, and evacuation capabilities are essential.
Fire is the greatest threat, so workers must receive training and conduct regular drills. Despite thorough waterproofing, some seepage is inevitable, so operational water-proofing measures are vital.
He added that although some residential buildings have basements, there’s no necessity or justification to build homes underground or in caverns.
With climate change intensifying rainfall over the past 50 years, more land will be needed for drainage and flood prevention. The government is studying underground tunnels to channel stormwater into caverns for storage; as more cavern projects advance, underground water-storage costs are expected to fall.
In addition, building underground logistics facilities using automated retrieval systems near Changi Airport and Tuas Port could further boost efficiency.
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